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amado1(Obsc'zine #2, to be precise)
Susan J. Bridges:
It is fondly believed by many that one passionately loves or hates the KRAITH universe, and that there is little or no neutral ground. I disagree. The KRAITH universe is whole and complete in itself. Given Lichtenberg's stories, it is possible to extrapolate the solution to a given number of situations. This makes the KRAITH universe very strong. I believe that there is a tendency to use the terms of this universe in stories which do not fit, the KRAITH universe, and I find the process distressing. "Aftermath" is a good example of this use of KRAITH terms in a non-KRAITH universe. Aftermath sees Spock in love with Kirk, desiring him sexually. Spock ends up admitting this to Kirk and obtaining (or so is the implication of the ending) his desire. But in the KRAITH universe, Spock could never come to such a state. He has affirmed the continuity and represents his family on the High Council (instead of T'Uriamne). As the series progressed, Spock became more and more Vulcan and certainly more respected and revered there. It is illogical that in such a universe Spock could come to view Kirk as an object of sexual desire. It is also difficult to perceive of the KRAITH Kirk involved in such a situation.
I am not trying to attack a Kirk/Spock sexual relationship in general. It is just that when an author uses terms from a particular "Alternate Universe", that author ought, in my opinion, be limited by the boundaries of the universe that the terms imply. I don't believe that a homosexual relationship for Spock and Kirk is legitimate in the KRAITH universe, and I therefore object to certain aspects of Aftermath.
Alisa Cohen:
I am one of the hundreds of fans who read fanzines but never (rarely) write LoC's. However, in WS 21 I read something in the lettercol which forced me out of the bathtub forty-five minutes early, viz. a letter from Joyce Quackenbush. Joyce stated that she read an article by a doctor who claimed that homosexuality was a strictly physical condition, and she felt that by STAR TREK's time, homosexuality would be a curable condition. I am a psychology student, and I've read too much to the contrary. Kurt Lewin, the "father" of social psychology formulated an idea, stating that B(behavior) = f(is a function of) g(genetics) + e(environment). In this formula, we negate genetics, since all human beings have essentially the same genetic background. Environment then is the major factor in determining all forms of behavior, including sexuality. If this doctor feels that homosexuality can be "cured" he will have to "cure" potential homosexuals' environments first.
My second objection is to the idea that homosexuality is an illness. We do not know that it is. Yes, it is an aberrant behavior, but then, so is being an sf fan, and I do not consider myself sick because sf and ST fascinate me.
My third objection: why do we assume that heterosexuality is the way of the future? Gays are more accepted now than they ever have been before. More are "coming out" with less fear than five years ago. Who can say that two centuries from now it won't be encouraged? Given overpopulation on certain planets, it may become necessary.
My last point is a personal one. It is not difficult to imagine Kirk and Spock as lovers. The two have a warm respecting relationship, and it seems as though that deep love is the product of continuing sacrifices for one another, shared experiences, and compatible personalities. A friendship as thorough as theirs may find expression in sexuality the only way to communicate their mutual love and trust. The first time I ran across this theme, I found it beautiful and believable.
I am a little bit uneasy about it, though. Though I am a McCoy fan, and straight myself, I can see how this relatively new angle on Kirk and Spock would jeopardize a lot of fantasies. For all my proselytizing, the thought of Kirk and McCoy in bed would take a lot of getting used to!
Elyse M. Grasso:
With regard to the current discussion on homosexuality ... after re-reading My Secret Garden: Female Sexual Fantasies by Nancy Friday a number of ideas concentrated in my mind: 1) a large portion of ST fanfiction is written by (and for?) females; 2) zine editors often complain about the frequent occurance and lack of originality of get-whoever stories and Kirk-and-Spock get together stories among the manuscripts submitted to them; 3) pornography written by and for males is notoriously lacking in originality and "literary" quality (you can't over-structure the readers' fantasies without turning them off, when the focus is on the fictional characters rather than on the reader you have literature, not hard porn); 4) pornography written by-and-for males is notoriously replete with sado-masochism and lesbian episodes.
Make of this what you will, bearing in mind that all explanations of any aspect of anything are invariably oversimplified.
With regard to the possibility of a Kirk-Spock relationship...
On Earth, as speices become more intelligent, their sexual urges become more generalized and less bound by instinct. Primates and cetaceans have frequently been observed engaging in sexual activities with members of their own sex and with members of other species (chimps with baboons in the wild (Goodall), and assorted dolphin species, including killer whales, in captivity. Dolphins in captivity make passes at people disregarding gender, see Lilly, On Dolphins, and Sagan, Cosmic Connection.) For all known intelligent species, limits on choice of sexual partner are cultural rather than instinctual in origin.
If Vulcans were strictly bound by instinct in partner selection, Spock would not exist, and there would be no need for the extensive rituals surrounding pon farr (you don't ritualize breathing). If Vulcans were strictly monogamous, T'Pring would not have looked at anyone else, once bonded to Spock.
If one assumes that Vulcans 1) consider sexual intercourse not accompanied by telepathic bonding (or deep linking) to be perversion, 2) consider deliberate attempts to prevent conception to be murder, blasphemy, perversion, etc., 3) are ordinarily (except at pon farr) much less interested in sex than humans are due to hormonal changes, cultural conditioning and the traumatic nature of the experience of pon farr on individuals and on society, and 4) are a less social species than humans are, with a greater need for privacy and solitude and a much larger normal personal space, it is possible to account for all known Vulcan behavioral patterns and also possible to state that it is quite possible for Spock to be less hung up by a relationship than Kirk would be. Spock would probably not spontaneously go beyond a telepathic union, but once a bond had been established, physical reinforcement of it could well be considered valid (eccentric, perhaps, but not perverted.). Promiscuity would be considered much worse than a stable homosexual union, provided one's reproductive and marital responsibilities were not avoided. (I am not sure that a sane telepath can be promiscuous, not in a society which places a high value on privacy, anyway.)
Spock would have trouble dealing with the establishment of an acknowledged bond with Kirk, Kirk would have trouble dealing with the "homosexual" aspects of the situation ... but might be able to deal with a telepathic/emotion bond only in terms of sexuality.
Rebecca R. Hoffman:
You have a curious mixture of stories here from the very excellent to the very bad -- as far as story content goes. My favorite has to be "Hecate's Hearth". But then, I do get off on horror stories and Faddis is a fantastic author anyway. Close behind that were "Unicorn's Horn" (the funniest orgy story I've read), "Bitter Dreams," and "Tears of Laughter". Order of listing does not indicate preference. For the most part, too, I enjoyed the other items in the Spock Portfolio.
Now to the worst: and why I dislike them. You might say I have a case of AC-rophobia. But the one thing I do not like at all are these gay stories, and you seem to have a multiplicity of them in this issue. "Kirk's Decision" completely turned me off, as did "Another Saturday Night" ... "The Perfect Mate" (thoroughly rotten), "Intimacy", "Bedtime Story" (along another subject matter but it still sticks in my craw) and "Poses". (Wasn't "Shelter" enough?) Sorry. Perhaps I'm just too much of a thoroughly heterosexual female, but these gay stories turn me completely off. It's more than just a dislike on my part. It seems to me to be a total mischaracterization. In ST we were clearly shown two well-adjusted, heterosexual males in Kirk and Spock, and these stories seem to be perverting their characters. What is all this interest in homo-stuff, anyway? Some of the stories, I must admit, are well-written, and my comments do not necessarily reflect on the author's writing abilities. Take "Poses" for example. Leslie Fish can write a good story, and make it interesting, but the basic premise of the story is just a bit too much. To paraphrase someone -- not only may the Kirk/Spock premise rest in peace, may it also rest in pieces -- very tiny pieces. I can only hope that you don't have much, if any, of these gay stories next time around. Maybe this fad will soon run its course...
Susan J. Bridges:
It is fondly believed by many that one passionately loves or hates the KRAITH universe, and that there is little or no neutral ground. I disagree. The KRAITH universe is whole and complete in itself. Given Lichtenberg's stories, it is possible to extrapolate the solution to a given number of situations. This makes the KRAITH universe very strong. I believe that there is a tendency to use the terms of this universe in stories which do not fit, the KRAITH universe, and I find the process distressing. "Aftermath" is a good example of this use of KRAITH terms in a non-KRAITH universe. Aftermath sees Spock in love with Kirk, desiring him sexually. Spock ends up admitting this to Kirk and obtaining (or so is the implication of the ending) his desire. But in the KRAITH universe, Spock could never come to such a state. He has affirmed the continuity and represents his family on the High Council (instead of T'Uriamne). As the series progressed, Spock became more and more Vulcan and certainly more respected and revered there. It is illogical that in such a universe Spock could come to view Kirk as an object of sexual desire. It is also difficult to perceive of the KRAITH Kirk involved in such a situation.
I am not trying to attack a Kirk/Spock sexual relationship in general. It is just that when an author uses terms from a particular "Alternate Universe", that author ought, in my opinion, be limited by the boundaries of the universe that the terms imply. I don't believe that a homosexual relationship for Spock and Kirk is legitimate in the KRAITH universe, and I therefore object to certain aspects of Aftermath.
Alisa Cohen:
I am one of the hundreds of fans who read fanzines but never (rarely) write LoC's. However, in WS 21 I read something in the lettercol which forced me out of the bathtub forty-five minutes early, viz. a letter from Joyce Quackenbush. Joyce stated that she read an article by a doctor who claimed that homosexuality was a strictly physical condition, and she felt that by STAR TREK's time, homosexuality would be a curable condition. I am a psychology student, and I've read too much to the contrary. Kurt Lewin, the "father" of social psychology formulated an idea, stating that B(behavior) = f(is a function of) g(genetics) + e(environment). In this formula, we negate genetics, since all human beings have essentially the same genetic background. Environment then is the major factor in determining all forms of behavior, including sexuality. If this doctor feels that homosexuality can be "cured" he will have to "cure" potential homosexuals' environments first.
My second objection is to the idea that homosexuality is an illness. We do not know that it is. Yes, it is an aberrant behavior, but then, so is being an sf fan, and I do not consider myself sick because sf and ST fascinate me.
My third objection: why do we assume that heterosexuality is the way of the future? Gays are more accepted now than they ever have been before. More are "coming out" with less fear than five years ago. Who can say that two centuries from now it won't be encouraged? Given overpopulation on certain planets, it may become necessary.
My last point is a personal one. It is not difficult to imagine Kirk and Spock as lovers. The two have a warm respecting relationship, and it seems as though that deep love is the product of continuing sacrifices for one another, shared experiences, and compatible personalities. A friendship as thorough as theirs may find expression in sexuality the only way to communicate their mutual love and trust. The first time I ran across this theme, I found it beautiful and believable.
I am a little bit uneasy about it, though. Though I am a McCoy fan, and straight myself, I can see how this relatively new angle on Kirk and Spock would jeopardize a lot of fantasies. For all my proselytizing, the thought of Kirk and McCoy in bed would take a lot of getting used to!
Elyse M. Grasso:
With regard to the current discussion on homosexuality ... after re-reading My Secret Garden: Female Sexual Fantasies by Nancy Friday a number of ideas concentrated in my mind: 1) a large portion of ST fanfiction is written by (and for?) females; 2) zine editors often complain about the frequent occurance and lack of originality of get-whoever stories and Kirk-and-Spock get together stories among the manuscripts submitted to them; 3) pornography written by and for males is notoriously lacking in originality and "literary" quality (you can't over-structure the readers' fantasies without turning them off, when the focus is on the fictional characters rather than on the reader you have literature, not hard porn); 4) pornography written by-and-for males is notoriously replete with sado-masochism and lesbian episodes.
Make of this what you will, bearing in mind that all explanations of any aspect of anything are invariably oversimplified.
With regard to the possibility of a Kirk-Spock relationship...
On Earth, as speices become more intelligent, their sexual urges become more generalized and less bound by instinct. Primates and cetaceans have frequently been observed engaging in sexual activities with members of their own sex and with members of other species (chimps with baboons in the wild (Goodall), and assorted dolphin species, including killer whales, in captivity. Dolphins in captivity make passes at people disregarding gender, see Lilly, On Dolphins, and Sagan, Cosmic Connection.) For all known intelligent species, limits on choice of sexual partner are cultural rather than instinctual in origin.
If Vulcans were strictly bound by instinct in partner selection, Spock would not exist, and there would be no need for the extensive rituals surrounding pon farr (you don't ritualize breathing). If Vulcans were strictly monogamous, T'Pring would not have looked at anyone else, once bonded to Spock.
If one assumes that Vulcans 1) consider sexual intercourse not accompanied by telepathic bonding (or deep linking) to be perversion, 2) consider deliberate attempts to prevent conception to be murder, blasphemy, perversion, etc., 3) are ordinarily (except at pon farr) much less interested in sex than humans are due to hormonal changes, cultural conditioning and the traumatic nature of the experience of pon farr on individuals and on society, and 4) are a less social species than humans are, with a greater need for privacy and solitude and a much larger normal personal space, it is possible to account for all known Vulcan behavioral patterns and also possible to state that it is quite possible for Spock to be less hung up by a relationship than Kirk would be. Spock would probably not spontaneously go beyond a telepathic union, but once a bond had been established, physical reinforcement of it could well be considered valid (eccentric, perhaps, but not perverted.). Promiscuity would be considered much worse than a stable homosexual union, provided one's reproductive and marital responsibilities were not avoided. (I am not sure that a sane telepath can be promiscuous, not in a society which places a high value on privacy, anyway.)
Spock would have trouble dealing with the establishment of an acknowledged bond with Kirk, Kirk would have trouble dealing with the "homosexual" aspects of the situation ... but might be able to deal with a telepathic/emotion bond only in terms of sexuality.
Rebecca R. Hoffman:
You have a curious mixture of stories here from the very excellent to the very bad -- as far as story content goes. My favorite has to be "Hecate's Hearth". But then, I do get off on horror stories and Faddis is a fantastic author anyway. Close behind that were "Unicorn's Horn" (the funniest orgy story I've read), "Bitter Dreams," and "Tears of Laughter". Order of listing does not indicate preference. For the most part, too, I enjoyed the other items in the Spock Portfolio.
Now to the worst: and why I dislike them. You might say I have a case of AC-rophobia. But the one thing I do not like at all are these gay stories, and you seem to have a multiplicity of them in this issue. "Kirk's Decision" completely turned me off, as did "Another Saturday Night" ... "The Perfect Mate" (thoroughly rotten), "Intimacy", "Bedtime Story" (along another subject matter but it still sticks in my craw) and "Poses". (Wasn't "Shelter" enough?) Sorry. Perhaps I'm just too much of a thoroughly heterosexual female, but these gay stories turn me completely off. It's more than just a dislike on my part. It seems to me to be a total mischaracterization. In ST we were clearly shown two well-adjusted, heterosexual males in Kirk and Spock, and these stories seem to be perverting their characters. What is all this interest in homo-stuff, anyway? Some of the stories, I must admit, are well-written, and my comments do not necessarily reflect on the author's writing abilities. Take "Poses" for example. Leslie Fish can write a good story, and make it interesting, but the basic premise of the story is just a bit too much. To paraphrase someone -- not only may the Kirk/Spock premise rest in peace, may it also rest in pieces -- very tiny pieces. I can only hope that you don't have much, if any, of these gay stories next time around. Maybe this fad will soon run its course...
